I attempted, for far too long, to battle some serious formatting issues going on with Blogger and the quote feature. I gave up so it's not as pretty. But at least we have consistent font size and color and it actually should make sense now.
The plastic bag saga, from "Oregon considers statewide ban on plastic bags", posted on KATU.
Dodge Ram: There is nothing to do with that gas but flare it at the site or bottle it and send it to a processing plant to be made into the grocery bags. Sorry.
Me: So you've talked with the natural gas extractors and know for sure that there's absolutely nothing else they can do with the waste? I don't see how this stuff HAS to be made into plastic bags, and can't be used to make something else. Maybe replace some petroleum-derived plastic packaging? There is still a problem with billions of plastic bags floating through the environment, being consumed by and killing wildlife, and taking thousands of years to degrade. I think the bigger picture here might be the fact that so many plastic bags are used needlessly and never recycled. Maybe the baggers could stop automatically bagging anything beyond one item and realize that people have hands.
DR: Um do a little on-line reading other that the left wing liberal save the planet BS.
Me: Read anything besides conspiracy theory government-hater-circulated "we can do no wrong" literature, or, better yet, talk to a scientist from NOAA. Or heck, even a high school chemistry teacher!
DR: That's funny coming from a liberal mush-head that thinks every thing good comes from the federal government.
Someone else: It's this type of crap that keeps Oregon from being a worthwhile place to live. They think being green is more important than jobs.
Me: There's more to "being green" than the slogan. Look around and see for yourself what a horrible state we have left this country in for our economist-driven mentality that always says "grow grow grow" and as cheaply as possible. I think your assumption that the "weirdos" are against anything that might grow the economy is total BS. They aren't against those things; they are for attempting to do things that don't damage the environment so much. Ever heard of ecosystem services? I would encourage you to look up estimates on what they are worth to this country, before making blanket statements that are ignorant and slam people that are passionate about improving things. If more people don't start considering environmental health in business practices, we are going to have a lot more problems than too few jobs. By the way I live between eastern and western and I have lived in one of the most conservative towns in this state (which is, encouragingly, building a biomass plant that will clean up our forests and create jobs; and harnessing geothermal energy in many facets).
I get: so as long as you have your feel good Earth saving lifestyle and I assume a Job...the heck with the rest of Oregon ? What mess have we left...Oregon is the most beautiful place on earth.............
In response I say: Actually, being aware of the environmental problems and trying to lessen my impact brings about a feeling of overwhelming sadness in me, a far cry from a "feel good" lifestyle. As far as a job..I'm a seasonal employee, I only work six months out of the year because there is a lack of wildlife work. I recently applied for a four month long position with mediocre pay and no possibility of extension and there were 60 applicants. So I am well aware that people are hurting for lack of jobs. I doubt if plastic bag manufacturing is a keystone of Oregon's industry though.What mess? I will admit that Oregon is still, thankfully, a gorgeous place to live. But we have lost a lot of natural old-growth, introduced a lot of non-native species like cheat grass that disrupt the ecosystem, dammed the rivers (I wish I could have seen the Columbia with a natural functioning floodplain and glut of natural fish stocks, free flowing); taken the Willamette Valley's fertile croplands and turned it into city...the list goes on. I think we'd all be amazed at the overwhelming beauty of this place if we could go back in time 200 years. In comparison, I think it would be safe to say it's a mess.
An old-timer: I have seen the Columbia and the natural flood plains before the dams and I prefer the way it is now. There is more recreational opportunity the scenic value is still there if houses are not allowed along the hill sides to ruin it like the Oregon coast has been raped. I can remember when one could get a scenic picture of the coast without roof tops in it. I seen the Vanport flood,water in down town Portland waterfront.
Me: But would you consider the possibility that perhaps the natural version was a healthier version, more resilient to man-made influences?
DodgeRam feels the need to interject: "But would you consider the possibility that perhaps the natural version was a healthier version, more resilient to man-made influences?" Back when the average life expectancy was only 35-40 years if that?
Baffled, I reply: Natural floodplains.....human life expectancy. Total non-sequiter. You're really grabbing at straws now.
DR: and I'm grabbing at straws ? go back to your tent and your hemp and leave the mature adults with intelligence to salve the big problems Governor Ted..
Me: Yes, I'm pretty sure any reasonable adult would also conclude that you're grabbing at straws. Sorry, not trusting the "mature adults" to "salve" the big problems.
Another outraged reader: I recently moved next to a Fred Myer that only provides paper bags, and I HATE it with a passion. I also reused the plastic bags but what really annoys me is the paper bags rip so easily, I've lost several items like eggs and glass bottles because of it. Now I just triple bag EVERYTHING. And try putting a paper bag on the scale to bag your groceries in the self checkout lane, "Please remove the last item" It's your F*#@$@$# bag!!! I can't remove it.
Me: There is an option at the self check-outs for bringing your own bags. You just have to press a button and then it won't do that. At least that's what I remember from the FM in Corvallis.
(I got -7 points for sharing that tidbit of advice)
Me later: Wow, proof that people are thumbs-downing the person rather than the post. How can my helpful comment have possibly offended anyone!? Lordy.
DR: Go back to smoking pot in Corvallis apparently your better at that.
Me: Learn to spell and differentiate between you're and your. Once again, another stupid and completely untrue assumption that calls into question whether or not *anything* you post is true.
DR: Go back to smoking pot in Corvallis apparently YOU ARE better at that and I will bet YOU ARE under the age of 25?
Me: As you are proof, sheer number of years doesn't equate with intelligence. Didn't smoke pot in Corvallis, nor anywhere for that matter. Thanks for trying though. We're not really keeping it relevant anymore so I'm ending it here in order to keep this space uncluttered for future readers.
DR, referring to my handle of muskrateer: Ok VERMIN
Another sensible soul: Charging for the bags encourages people to bring their own bags. Many countries all over the world have been using this method for years. We are behind the times. The plastic bags are light and end up getting blown all over the place, get caught in fences, trees and bushes and it is very unsightly, not to mention the amount of time it takes them to biodegrade. I welcome this ban as I have been using reusable bags for years.
WhiteHawk: This is not SOME other Country! We live in a state with a continued renewable resource..but due to out of staters that have come here, and made it so we no longer have a viable logging industry..
We suffer as a result of it!! Trees are a renewable resource and paper bags should not cost anyone at the supermarket!!period!!! I for one..don't want to pretend that I live in another country..and do as they do..I live in my home state and want nothing to do with foreignese crap!
Me: Xenophobia, meet resistant-to-change! A match made in heaven.
WhiteHawk, in a separate standalone post: I have come to the conclusion.. that all the "greenies" must be a by product of those that immigrated here after our Great and Wondefrul Tom McCall was no longer governor. Those out of state immigrants multiplied and had more..just like em..and then they multiplied,,and this is what we get to deal with.. Zenophobic? moi? that's a laugh... Born and Raised and PROUD of it!!! I say we need to TAKE BACK OUR STATE,,and escort all the bleeding hearts..peta lovers.. greenies,, environmentalists..conservationists.. to the border,, and say"GOOD RIDDANCE!!! place new border signs..welcome to Oregon..come spend your money..and then Go back from where you came!!!!
Me: You are very good at jumping to conclusions in an attempt to support your agenda.
I was born and raised here, and both my parents were too (in the same town in fact!). My late grandfather founded a major fruit packing plant here.
I DESPISE PETA. They are basically an animal rights terrorist group and truly have no idea what they're doing.
Conservation: the act of conserving; prevention of injury, decay, waste, or loss; preservation: conservation of wildlife; conservation of human rights. (though there IS a distinct difference between preservation and conservation in the natural resources field)
I am proud to say I am a conservationist. Why anyone would be opposed to rational and thoughtful utilization of resources is beyond me. I am also open to learning and accepting the fact that I may be wrong. From reading up on it, I have learned that a lot of what I thought I knew about the manufacturing of these bags was false. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't think about better alternatives and ones that get us away from the throwayay mentality that is so pervasive in American culture.
The plastic bag saga, from "Oregon considers statewide ban on plastic bags", posted on KATU.
Dodge Ram: There is nothing to do with that gas but flare it at the site or bottle it and send it to a processing plant to be made into the grocery bags. Sorry.
Me: So you've talked with the natural gas extractors and know for sure that there's absolutely nothing else they can do with the waste? I don't see how this stuff HAS to be made into plastic bags, and can't be used to make something else. Maybe replace some petroleum-derived plastic packaging? There is still a problem with billions of plastic bags floating through the environment, being consumed by and killing wildlife, and taking thousands of years to degrade. I think the bigger picture here might be the fact that so many plastic bags are used needlessly and never recycled. Maybe the baggers could stop automatically bagging anything beyond one item and realize that people have hands.
DR: Um do a little on-line reading other that the left wing liberal save the planet BS.
Me: Read anything besides conspiracy theory government-hater-circulated "we can do no wrong" literature, or, better yet, talk to a scientist from NOAA. Or heck, even a high school chemistry teacher!
DR: That's funny coming from a liberal mush-head that thinks every thing good comes from the federal government.
Someone else: It's this type of crap that keeps Oregon from being a worthwhile place to live. They think being green is more important than jobs.
Me: There's more to "being green" than the slogan. Look around and see for yourself what a horrible state we have left this country in for our economist-driven mentality that always says "grow grow grow" and as cheaply as possible. I think your assumption that the "weirdos" are against anything that might grow the economy is total BS. They aren't against those things; they are for attempting to do things that don't damage the environment so much. Ever heard of ecosystem services? I would encourage you to look up estimates on what they are worth to this country, before making blanket statements that are ignorant and slam people that are passionate about improving things. If more people don't start considering environmental health in business practices, we are going to have a lot more problems than too few jobs. By the way I live between eastern and western and I have lived in one of the most conservative towns in this state (which is, encouragingly, building a biomass plant that will clean up our forests and create jobs; and harnessing geothermal energy in many facets).
I get: so as long as you have your feel good Earth saving lifestyle and I assume a Job...the heck with the rest of Oregon ? What mess have we left...Oregon is the most beautiful place on earth.............
In response I say: Actually, being aware of the environmental problems and trying to lessen my impact brings about a feeling of overwhelming sadness in me, a far cry from a "feel good" lifestyle. As far as a job..I'm a seasonal employee, I only work six months out of the year because there is a lack of wildlife work. I recently applied for a four month long position with mediocre pay and no possibility of extension and there were 60 applicants. So I am well aware that people are hurting for lack of jobs. I doubt if plastic bag manufacturing is a keystone of Oregon's industry though.What mess? I will admit that Oregon is still, thankfully, a gorgeous place to live. But we have lost a lot of natural old-growth, introduced a lot of non-native species like cheat grass that disrupt the ecosystem, dammed the rivers (I wish I could have seen the Columbia with a natural functioning floodplain and glut of natural fish stocks, free flowing); taken the Willamette Valley's fertile croplands and turned it into city...the list goes on. I think we'd all be amazed at the overwhelming beauty of this place if we could go back in time 200 years. In comparison, I think it would be safe to say it's a mess.
An old-timer: I have seen the Columbia and the natural flood plains before the dams and I prefer the way it is now. There is more recreational opportunity the scenic value is still there if houses are not allowed along the hill sides to ruin it like the Oregon coast has been raped. I can remember when one could get a scenic picture of the coast without roof tops in it. I seen the Vanport flood,water in down town Portland waterfront.
Me: But would you consider the possibility that perhaps the natural version was a healthier version, more resilient to man-made influences?
DodgeRam feels the need to interject: "But would you consider the possibility that perhaps the natural version was a healthier version, more resilient to man-made influences?" Back when the average life expectancy was only 35-40 years if that?
Baffled, I reply: Natural floodplains.....human life expectancy. Total non-sequiter. You're really grabbing at straws now.
DR: and I'm grabbing at straws ? go back to your tent and your hemp and leave the mature adults with intelligence to salve the big problems Governor Ted..
Me: Yes, I'm pretty sure any reasonable adult would also conclude that you're grabbing at straws. Sorry, not trusting the "mature adults" to "salve" the big problems.
Another outraged reader: I recently moved next to a Fred Myer that only provides paper bags, and I HATE it with a passion. I also reused the plastic bags but what really annoys me is the paper bags rip so easily, I've lost several items like eggs and glass bottles because of it. Now I just triple bag EVERYTHING. And try putting a paper bag on the scale to bag your groceries in the self checkout lane, "Please remove the last item" It's your F*#@$@$# bag!!! I can't remove it.
Me: There is an option at the self check-outs for bringing your own bags. You just have to press a button and then it won't do that. At least that's what I remember from the FM in Corvallis.
(I got -7 points for sharing that tidbit of advice)
Me later: Wow, proof that people are thumbs-downing the person rather than the post. How can my helpful comment have possibly offended anyone!? Lordy.
DR: Go back to smoking pot in Corvallis apparently your better at that.
Me: Learn to spell and differentiate between you're and your. Once again, another stupid and completely untrue assumption that calls into question whether or not *anything* you post is true.
DR: Go back to smoking pot in Corvallis apparently YOU ARE better at that and I will bet YOU ARE under the age of 25?
Me: As you are proof, sheer number of years doesn't equate with intelligence. Didn't smoke pot in Corvallis, nor anywhere for that matter. Thanks for trying though. We're not really keeping it relevant anymore so I'm ending it here in order to keep this space uncluttered for future readers.
DR, referring to my handle of muskrateer: Ok VERMIN
Another sensible soul: Charging for the bags encourages people to bring their own bags. Many countries all over the world have been using this method for years. We are behind the times. The plastic bags are light and end up getting blown all over the place, get caught in fences, trees and bushes and it is very unsightly, not to mention the amount of time it takes them to biodegrade. I welcome this ban as I have been using reusable bags for years.
WhiteHawk: This is not SOME other Country! We live in a state with a continued renewable resource..but due to out of staters that have come here, and made it so we no longer have a viable logging industry..
We suffer as a result of it!! Trees are a renewable resource and paper bags should not cost anyone at the supermarket!!period!!! I for one..don't want to pretend that I live in another country..and do as they do..I live in my home state and want nothing to do with foreignese crap!
Me: Xenophobia, meet resistant-to-change! A match made in heaven.
WhiteHawk, in a separate standalone post: I have come to the conclusion.. that all the "greenies" must be a by product of those that immigrated here after our Great and Wondefrul Tom McCall was no longer governor. Those out of state immigrants multiplied and had more..just like em..and then they multiplied,,and this is what we get to deal with.. Zenophobic? moi? that's a laugh... Born and Raised and PROUD of it!!! I say we need to TAKE BACK OUR STATE,,and escort all the bleeding hearts..peta lovers.. greenies,, environmentalists..conservationists.. to the border,, and say"GOOD RIDDANCE!!! place new border signs..welcome to Oregon..come spend your money..and then Go back from where you came!!!!
Me: You are very good at jumping to conclusions in an attempt to support your agenda.
I was born and raised here, and both my parents were too (in the same town in fact!). My late grandfather founded a major fruit packing plant here.
I DESPISE PETA. They are basically an animal rights terrorist group and truly have no idea what they're doing.
Conservation: the act of conserving; prevention of injury, decay, waste, or loss; preservation: conservation of wildlife; conservation of human rights. (though there IS a distinct difference between preservation and conservation in the natural resources field)
I am proud to say I am a conservationist. Why anyone would be opposed to rational and thoughtful utilization of resources is beyond me. I am also open to learning and accepting the fact that I may be wrong. From reading up on it, I have learned that a lot of what I thought I knew about the manufacturing of these bags was false. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't think about better alternatives and ones that get us away from the throwayay mentality that is so pervasive in American culture.
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